Comments on: Diggin’ In The Defensive Dirt (Part 1) — First Basemen http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/2009/08/02/diggin-in-the-defensive-dirt-part-1-first-basemen/ Covering America's Favorite Pastime Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:04:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Brian Joseph http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/2009/08/02/diggin-in-the-defensive-dirt-part-1-first-basemen/comment-page-1/#comment-3787 Brian Joseph Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:35:54 +0000 http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/blogs/2009/08/02/diggin-in-the-defensive-dirt-part-1-first-basemen/#comment-3787 The idea is to look at a number of different defensive metrics and see who ranks out as the best without giving any weight to any particular metric. I thought that was pretty clear but I have a gut feeling that your question was more snarky and demeaning than inquisitive. But I'll kid myself and assume you are being inquisitive to further this discussion and continue working toward better clarity of defensive ability. Besides, if UZR/150 is more valuable than Fielding % in your opinion and Fangraph's Fielding Value is the same as UZR/150 then, by accident, the formula here weighs UZR/150 more heavily since both statistics are used. However, we're still in the primitive phases of our understanding of defense statistically. The idea here was to bring some different metrics into play from a number of different sources, rank the players and see how they ranked out. There's no claim here, really. At some point, it may make sense to weigh out different metrics but I don't think it is fair to exclude any particular metric and ignore it when we try and determine superior fielders. For my money, Pujols and Youkilis are the top fielding first basemen in their leagues. The fact that Pujols has an impressive 50 OOZ plays makes me think maybe my evaluation of Pujols is partially impacted by watching shows like Baseball Tonight and MLB Quick Pitch where I've probably seen all 50 OOZ plays but haven't seen Pujols' complete body of work. To be able to look and see that Pujols is 8th in UZR/150 and 9th in fielding % also makes me question my impression... albeit only for this year in a small sample of data, really. You and I probably disagree on a lot of things, Colin. Personally, I'm of the belief that statistics are interdependent and the more data we can look at, the better. Settling on one particular metric as the end-all, be-all (i.e. declaring baseball's best fielders by looking at UZR/150 only) is never going to settle well with me. At the same time, I'm not content that equally weighing out each category used is the most effective way to do business either although, so far, I'm not disgusted with how the lists rank out. The same can't be said for most of these numbers individually since UZR/150 and Fiedling Bible +/- both make a case for Daniel Murphy being in the upper echelon of first basemen in the NL. Having seen more than my fair share of Mets games this year and having more than my fair share of discussions with Mets fans, there is no way that Murphy is anything more than adequate there and even the most diehard of Mets fans don't argue that point. Adding in the other data rankings drags Murph down to the bottom half of 1st basemen... and that makes a lot of sense to me. Sorry my post irritated you. The goal wasn't that.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('3787','Brian Joseph'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('3787','Brian Joseph','The idea is to look at a number of different defensive metrics and see who ranks out as the best without giving any weight to any particular metric. I thought that was pretty clear but I have a gut feeling that your question was more snarky and demeaning than inquisitive. But I\'ll kid myself and assume you are being inquisitive to further this discussion and continue working toward better clarity of defensive ability.\r\n\r\nBesides, if UZR\/150 is more valuable than Fielding % in your opinion and Fangraph\'s Fielding Value is the same as UZR\/150 then, by accident, the formula here weighs UZR\/150 more heavily since both statistics are used.\r\n\r\nHowever, we\'re still in the primitive phases of our understanding of defense statistically. The idea here was to bring some different metrics into play from a number of different sources, rank the players and see how they ranked out. There\'s no claim here, really. At some point, it may make sense to weigh out different metrics but I don\'t think it is fair to exclude any particular metric and ignore it when we try and determine superior fielders.\r\n\r\nFor my money, Pujols and Youkilis are the top fielding first basemen in their leagues. The fact that Pujols has an impressive 50 OOZ plays makes me think maybe my evaluation of Pujols is partially impacted by watching shows like Baseball Tonight and MLB Quick Pitch where I\'ve probably seen all 50 OOZ plays but haven\'t seen Pujols\' complete body of work. To be able to look and see that Pujols is 8th in UZR\/150 and 9th in fielding % also makes me question my impression... albeit only for this year in a small sample of data, really.\r\n\r\nYou and I probably disagree on a lot of things, Colin. Personally, I\'m of the belief that statistics are interdependent and the more data we can look at, the better. Settling on one particular metric as the end-all, be-all (i.e. declaring baseball\'s best fielders by looking at UZR\/150 only) is never going to settle well with me. \r\n\r\nAt the same time, I\'m not content that equally weighing out each category used is the most effective way to do business either although, so far, I\'m not disgusted with how the lists rank out. The same can\'t be said for most of these numbers individually since UZR\/150 and Fiedling Bible +\/- both make a case for Daniel Murphy being in the upper echelon of first basemen in the NL. Having seen more than my fair share of Mets games this year and having more than my fair share of discussions with Mets fans, there is no way that Murphy is anything more than adequate there and even the most diehard of Mets fans don\'t argue that point. Adding in the other data rankings drags Murph down to the bottom half of 1st basemen... and that makes a lot of sense to me. \r\n\r\nSorry my post irritated you. The goal wasn\'t that.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> The idea is to look at a number of different defensive metrics and see who ranks out as the best without giving any weight to any particular metric. I thought that was pretty clear but I have a gut feeling that your question was more snarky and demeaning than inquisitive. But I’ll kid myself and assume you are being inquisitive to further this discussion and continue working toward better clarity of defensive ability.

Besides, if UZR/150 is more valuable than Fielding % in your opinion and Fangraph’s Fielding Value is the same as UZR/150 then, by accident, the formula here weighs UZR/150 more heavily since both statistics are used.

However, we’re still in the primitive phases of our understanding of defense statistically. The idea here was to bring some different metrics into play from a number of different sources, rank the players and see how they ranked out. There’s no claim here, really. At some point, it may make sense to weigh out different metrics but I don’t think it is fair to exclude any particular metric and ignore it when we try and determine superior fielders.

For my money, Pujols and Youkilis are the top fielding first basemen in their leagues. The fact that Pujols has an impressive 50 OOZ plays makes me think maybe my evaluation of Pujols is partially impacted by watching shows like Baseball Tonight and MLB Quick Pitch where I’ve probably seen all 50 OOZ plays but haven’t seen Pujols’ complete body of work. To be able to look and see that Pujols is 8th in UZR/150 and 9th in fielding % also makes me question my impression… albeit only for this year in a small sample of data, really.

You and I probably disagree on a lot of things, Colin. Personally, I’m of the belief that statistics are interdependent and the more data we can look at, the better. Settling on one particular metric as the end-all, be-all (i.e. declaring baseball’s best fielders by looking at UZR/150 only) is never going to settle well with me.

At the same time, I’m not content that equally weighing out each category used is the most effective way to do business either although, so far, I’m not disgusted with how the lists rank out. The same can’t be said for most of these numbers individually since UZR/150 and Fiedling Bible +/- both make a case for Daniel Murphy being in the upper echelon of first basemen in the NL. Having seen more than my fair share of Mets games this year and having more than my fair share of discussions with Mets fans, there is no way that Murphy is anything more than adequate there and even the most diehard of Mets fans don’t argue that point. Adding in the other data rankings drags Murph down to the bottom half of 1st basemen… and that makes a lot of sense to me.

Sorry my post irritated you. The goal wasn’t that.

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]]> By: Colin Wyers http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/2009/08/02/diggin-in-the-defensive-dirt-part-1-first-basemen/comment-page-1/#comment-3786 Colin Wyers Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:17:36 +0000 http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/blogs/2009/08/02/diggin-in-the-defensive-dirt-part-1-first-basemen/#comment-3786 Your premise is wrong. There is absolutely no reason for us to think that Fielding Percentage and UZR/150 are equally as valuable. And five minutes of study would have told you that Fangraph's Fielding Value and UZR/150 are, in fact, the same exact stat, with UZR/150 simple prorated out to 150 games. What is the point of this article supposed to be?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('3786','Colin Wyers'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('3786','Colin Wyers','Your premise is wrong. There is absolutely no reason for us to think that Fielding Percentage and UZR\/150 are equally as valuable. And five minutes of study would have told you that Fangraph\'s Fielding Value and UZR\/150 are, in fact, the same exact stat, with UZR\/150 simple prorated out to 150 games. What is the point of this article supposed to be?'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Your premise is wrong. There is absolutely no reason for us to think that Fielding Percentage and UZR/150 are equally as valuable. And five minutes of study would have told you that Fangraph’s Fielding Value and UZR/150 are, in fact, the same exact stat, with UZR/150 simple prorated out to 150 games. What is the point of this article supposed to be?
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